Combined discussion on the motion for consideration of the National Investigation Agency Bill, 2008 and the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Amendment Bill, 2008. (Bills Passed).
Date:17-12-2008
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the behaviour of the Members of this House while discussing such an important Bill is definitely sad and the people of this country are frustrated with the unruly character that we portray here in this House. I regret that this is the image that we are sending out to the people. But everybody is an elected Member here and I have the highest regards for all of them.
Sir, while discussing the National Investigation Agency Bill, 2008 and the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Amendment Bill, 2008, the Central Government has to take note of the dire situation that is prevailing in this country. I welcome both these Bills. Like the hon. Leader of the Opposition Shri Advani said earlier today, across the board, I think, everybody in this House welcomes both these Bills.
But while welcoming these Bills, we also have many misapprehensions and apprehensions. There is a longstanding issue of State autonomy and at a very cursory glance, if we see the National Investigation Agency Bill, in our desperate effort to ape the United States of America, we are probably forgetting that we all belong to a nation called India, that is, Bharat and that we have certain shortcomings that we should take into account while we deal with the legalities in this nation.
Sir, in Chapter-III, Clause 6, paragraph 5 of the Bill says:“Notwithstanding anything contained in this Section, if the Central Government is of the opinion that a scheduled offence has been committed which is required to be investigated under this Act, it may, suo motu, direct the agency to investigate the said offence.”Later on, in Clause 7(A), it is said:“While investigating any offence under this Act, the agency, having regard to the gravity of the offence and other relevant factors may, if it is expedient to do so, request the State Government to associate itself with the investigation.”
Sir, the Home Minister had particularly mentioned about this provision earlier, but he did not point out that the words ‘suo motu’ were used here and nor did he point out that if the agency or the Central Government find it expedient to do so.That means, it is at the sweet will of the agency or whoever may be in power at the Centre at a particular time to decide whether to involve any or all State Governments in investigations which come under this Schedule.
Sir, we, at the outset, have to accept that terrorism is not something special to India and it is also not limited to any geographical boundaries within India or outside India. Terror, today, is something that is enveloping the whole globe and all of us should have awakened to these realities long before. But like it is said on the Highways of India, ‘it is better late than never’, so we welcome these two Bills. Although they are late, they are to be supported. As of now, in my knowledge, there are about three intelligence agencies in this country. There is the Intelligence Bureau, there is the Research and Analysis Wing and there is also a Military Intelligence Wing. Apart from these, we have the State Governments having their own State intelligence bureaus. Unfortunately, with, at least, four different known layers — I do not know if the Government has any other unknown layer — of intelligence gathering there is absolutely no advance information of any incident that is happening in this country today, whether it be a blast in a train where common poor people are killed or whether these are murders that took place in a big luxurious 5-Star hotels. We never had any previous information. But after the incident, always the intelligence agencies and some wings of the Government come up and say that prior information was available. But they were not properly utilised.In Oriya, there is a saying मार, मार, भंडारिया को मार। That means, when you have to hit somebody, hit your barber because the barber is a poor fellow, he is cutting your hair, he does not know Adam or Eve. So, if you are angry, hit him. Similarly, here the Bhandariya became the former Home Minister, Mr. Shivraj Patil. I may not be a great admirer of Mr. Patil, but I definitely feel sorrow for this Patil and the other Mr. R.R. Patil of Maharashtra. Are they really to blame for these incidents? Are we supposed to take their scalp just because we could not act? Is it time we woke up and faced the reality that the system that the bureaucratic set up in this country is completely non-functional, it does not perform its duties?
Can a Home Minister, sitting in Delhi, possibly find out every single intelligence input that comes into the knowledge of the officers? He cannot. But here we go, we took his scalp. The Party bosses thought it fit and the people also came up with placards which said ‘enough is enough.’ Is it not time that we also educate our people that there is no enough of terrorism. Terrorism has no end. It is not limited to any religion. It is not limited to any country. It is a global phenomenon and while I am saying this, I must take note of the fact that the dead terrorists were not allowed to be buried in any of the Muslim burial grounds of Mumbai because the community there detested those people and oppose their burials as a mark of hatred towards the terrorists. So, we have to commend that in the burial grounds they did not want their near and dear ones to be sharing the grounds with these criminals, with these low down people. So, it is not a question of any religion. It is not Hindus who are terrorists and it is not Muslims who are terrorists. Terrorists are a religion by themselves.But, here we have all these multifarious police and intelligence wings which do not share or coordinate information. Therefore we are always at a loss as to what we are supposed to do. When I see these two Acts, I find these are basically the Acts that are seeking post mortem reports. Once a person is dead, once a terrorist activity is completed, over and done with, when something like the NSG takes more than nine hours to reach Bombay from Delhi, all these failures get covered up with your special court and your special laws. I would expect the Minister sahib to please pay attention; with all these things, we are only seeking a post mortem report. For how long, shall we have this post mortem being done to us?
Since Lal Bahadur Shastri set the trend when the train accident occurred and he resigned, that hatred towards politicians and taking the scalp of politicians has commenced. But we are at no point of time taking into account the failure of the bureaucrats.
It is time that we also make the people of this country aware that they have a certain role to play. It is not enough for people to go out to the streets and say that let there be war against Pakistan. Those are people who need to be made conscious that in the 21st century world, in a war by a country like India against any other country, leave alone Pakistan which is a very determined State, even a small country like Malpes or Sri Lanka, there cannot be a conclusive victory for India. Therefore, it is pointless to say that we should go to war. What we should be thinking about is what we are doing to stop recurrence of such incidents. Are we coordinating the intelligence network? Are we coordinating the Armed Forces? Are we able to coordinate the special police forces? Lastly, are we able to make the people conscious?
Here, it may be very proper to mention that a small State like Israel which is cordoned on one side, on the northern side, by the Mediterranean but on all the other three sides by extremely inimical States has managed not only to survive but to thwart most terror activities and has beaten its enemies black and blue. That has been possible because the Government is responsive. It is not responsive just by passing laws and Bills in Parliament and making a mockery of themselves by shouting at each other, not understanding the seriousness of the issue, but by coordinating Government action, police and military action with the common citizens. It is therefore my humble prayer and request to the Government that while they pass this Bill, they have to take into account that there will be mischievous people in power now or later. And to destroy the autonomy of the State, by having such an agency which can operate on its own, and which may, if it so thinks expedient, request the State Government to participate in the investigation, we are endangering the very fibre of our democratic setup. When we have to protect democracy, we also have to think that democracy means nothing if the people of this country are endangered. So, protecting the people being our first concern, we have to think that with the existing Armed Forces, with the existing intelligence what we already have at our resources, how best we can make sure that instead of a post mortem Bill we bring this nation to a level of utter preparedness where we can face terrorism and all kinds of terror activities at the very outset and not wait till the time comes when we have to decide whether this lone terrorist will be hung in a public square in Bombay or whether we will have special courts. It is time that all of us join hands. We all support the Government in this activity. But I hope the Home Minister and the Government will wake up to realities, take care of the autonomy of the States and also protect the lives and properties of the citizens of India.
Discussion on the motion for consideration of the Electoral Reforms Commission Bill, 2006.
Date:12-12-2008
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.
At the very outset, I would like to state very clearly that I support what our hon. colleague Shri Chandrappan has brought before the House as a Private Member’s Bill. To reform is good. To change constantly is an effort at perfection. So, right at the outset, we all agree that there is a big problem in this country. The problem is that Mahatma Gandhi understood the very basic character of Indians. He knew at the beginning that we are an indisciplined race and we do not like to obey anything. Therefore, Mahatma Gandhi’s movement was based on Non-Cooperation. He knew how to use our weakness to drive a disciplined nation like the British out of this country. Because of that process, we fell behind in struggles like the ones led by Bhagat Singh or Netaji Subash Chandra Bose who picked up the weapon to fight the British. Therefore, we all must admit that we did not have any bloodshed or no major bloodshed when we fought for freedom. We got a freedom for free and we got a freedom which, probably, we are still not worthy of. Because of that, in this august House, we still see very many senior Members deriding politicians. Some speakers a little while earlier including a Minister said that we should keep politics out of Science or Home or whatever it is. Then, many Members of Parliament constantly say that politicians are bad and good people must come in. I would like to question those very same hon. Members that do they consider themselves to be less educated, to be loving India less than any other citizen of this country, to be less patriotic than any other Indian in this country. I would actually like to question them. As a race, as a group of people, politicians have lost faith in themselves. We deride ourselves.
Madam, I would like to ask you one question. You are an active person and you see this nation very well. Kindly tell me one single Judge of any court from the highest to the lowest, while in office, not after office but while in office, has criticized the judicial system for its failures. Tell me one single police officer or an IAS or IFS officer who, while in service, has criticized the services. You never see that. You see them doing that only after they have retired and after they are getting their pension and are happily looked after for ever. So, we are the only race who deride ourselves. It is time that we also started admitting to ourselves that we are not what these people who put up the banners in Mumbai and other places saying hate democracy, we hate our elected representatives. We are not people like that.
I am not being candescent on anybody. This nation has reached a stage where it must and has to start with political leaders because consciously or unconsciously, we have not encouraged social leadership in this country.Therefore, the total burden comes on political parties. We have to understand that we have to create self-respect amongst ourselves.
Madam, I remember, some years ago there was this Chief Election Commissioner – I would not like to name him – who made many rules while in office and said that the Collectors will be the Gods for MPs and that Sub-Collectors will be the Gods for MLAs; they will see how you are behaving during elections and they will give your report card and he bestowed all powers on those bureaucrats. What were those bureaucrats doing? They were going around, striking deals. If somebody wanted to get elected as an MLA, the Sub-Collector has to be kept in good humour, if you want to get elected to the Lok Sabha, the nodal Collector should be happy with you. So, later on, when that gentleman retired, he went off to Gujarat to fight an election, he wanted to contest for the post of President of India and then we, this nation, realised that all these reforms that he was trying to implement in India were all a farce. They were all a farce because he wanted to build an image bigger than himself and try to attract the people thinking that he could get away with that, but there was no sincerity of purpose.
Now, we feel threatened when people come up with banners and say that we hate democracy, it is primarily playing into the hands of terrorists or Maoists. That is the game they want. They want that the common man should lose faith in the democratic set up, on the system that is functioning in this country. It is not the system which is bad, it is the people who are not keeping up to their promises and who are not efficient. Therefore, the change or reform in the electoral process is definitely something that we should all support.
It is like saying that there are a lot of people in this country who speak against corruption. I always have a good laugh when I hear that because I find that the people who speak against corruption are people who are incapable or are not in a seat where they can be corrupt. But give them a chance, give them an opportunity; will they not be corrupt themselves? Of course they will be corrupt; they will be more corrupt than the people against whom they are speaking. So, it is not a question of being clean and being unclean; it is a question of where you are positioning yourself.
We are talking about Government funding in elections. How can the Government fund the elections? Who will the Government fund? Will the Government funding in elections be limited to only recognised political parties? If that be so, then what happens when you are speaking that good people should come into politics? First of all, who is good? I think I am good; you think you are good. So who is good? Everybody is good till the opportunity does not arise. When the opportunity comes, then the test is whether we are actually good or bad. So, if you curtail funding only to recognised political parties, you will be killing a lot of independent and the so-called “good people”. Therefore, funding of the electoral process in India, in my personal opinion, is wrong; we should not even consider that.
But we cannot limit contestants. What should we do for that? I would suggest, amongst so many other suggestions that the hon. Member has put forward, that instead of funding, what we should do is that we should make the people’s representatives tell the truth. How do you do that? The first falsehood that we are compelled to speak is that we sign under oath that this is the amount that we have spent in elections. If I am in a position and able to decide, I would say that we should not keep any limit, but you should compel the people’s representatives to tell the truth. If a poor person like Barrack Hussain Obama, whose wife used to wear false diamonds like our Hyderabad diamonds, could raise 60 million dollars personally and did not take Government funding for his election, how could he do that? The rumour goes – the magazines in the USA have written – that in his election he spent more than a billion dollars. A poor man spending more than a billion dollars shows something very categorically that the democratic setup is definitely getting more and more expensive in every country. So it is not a question of how much one should spend; it is whether you are compelling us to tell the truth or not. Let us start initially by speaking the truth and encouraging other people to speak the truth.
Madam, I know my time is coming to an end. I would just like to give one example. This country spent hundreds of crores of rupees in preparing voters’ ID cards. Those cards were supposed to have multifarious uses. Those could have been used as identity cards in other things also. But, unfortunately, no benefits were attached to that card. That card became initially very important. Today, people do not even bother about those cards. I would suggest that as a first step, if the Government actually wants to go ahead with certain kind of electoral reforms, one thing they can do as an example is to make those cards valid in the coming elections, whenever your leadership decides to have an election in this country. It is because, we are not like the US where everything is mandated; everything is decided. It depends on the sweet will of so many people. I would suggest that the card should be made mandatory in this very election. Without a card a voter should not be allowed to vote. Once you do that in one election, that becomes a valuable document. All those hundreds and thousands of crores of rupees that the Government has spent in photographing and preparing all those cards would come to some use and would not go waste.
There are many more points; this is one little example. I am really thankful and grateful to you for giving me this opportunity.
Regarding attacks on North-Indian Students during Railway examinations in Maharashtra.
Date:20-10-2008
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): I will be short. Chairman, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. No one can condone violence, and the incidents in Bombay were definitely sad. Everybody here in this House will be united in opposing it.
But, Sir, this House is not meant just to make allegations. We, as representatives of the people, are supposed to find solutions to problems that arise in any part of this country. Whether it is the extreme end in the East in a State called Assam or in the extreme end of the West in a State called Maharashtra, why are we seeing this kind of a violence? Where lies the seed? It is easy to make allegations. It is easy to get united as North Indians, South Indians, Biharis, Marathis, Oriyas but when will we start thinking as Indians? It is time that we understand that the heart is burning and there is irritation in the minds of people. Why is this happening especially in the case of the Railways? It is not only in Maharashtra, it is all over the country. The Regional Recruitment Boards do not represent the people of the region. People from other States are coming in particularly of certain States. I do not wish to name anybody. I am an Indian first and then I may be of some State. I am ashamed to admit this that it is happening over and over again all over the country and in every Regional Recruitment Board of the railways. People from a particular zone are overpowering.
Take the example of the Zonal Railway Users’ Consultative Committees. Take the data. All over this country you have ZRUCCs. How many ZRUCCs have actually sat, taught, discussed and have found solutions to problems of the users of that zone. The meetings are not being held. Why are the meetings not being held? In the State of Orissa, we have a ZRUCC. Members from another neighbouring State; they are no more neighbouring because another new State has come in between; but a large group of member from the erstwhile neighbouring State are dominating our ZRUCC. Our hon. MPs of various parties including Congress, BJD, BJP have preferred to walk out of the meeting but they have not allowed it to be conducted. This is a very serious matter. I support Anant Geete ji in this thing that in regional dailies there are never any advertisements about what is happening in the Railways. They avoid the regional dailies; whereas in certain areas of the country, in a certain pocket of this country, regional dailies are given the advertisements. You will be surprised to know that in Allahabad, 3000 applicants appeared for an examination; 1500 were taken in; the rest 1000 were sent to Bombay to appear for exams there. This is creating a heartburn that is going deep into the psyche of this nation. It is time this House rises above being a Bihari, being a UPite, being an Oriya, or being a Tamilian. We have to think as Indians. It is a matter of shame for all of us. We pose to be great leaders but it is a shame for all of us to behave like this. Lastly, I would like that as a political person let us not denigrate Mr. Raj Thackeray or his MNS organisation because we do not know what his future is.
Let us talk with respect towards everybody because he also represents a certain group of people. Let us not disrespect anybody but let us set our own house in order. I would request the hon. Railway Minister – he is a broad-minded person –Lalu ji not to derail the Railways but to put it back on the rails so that people even in Orissa do not feel slighted, do not feel neglected because this sort of a situation may arise there also, and the people there will be forced and no political leader can control it. This is a warning. Let us accept this warning and let us set our house in order before we make allegations against MNS or against Mr. Raj Thackeray.
Discussion on the Demand for Grant No. 59 under the Control of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting for 2008 -09 and submission of outstanding demands to vote of the House.
Date:24-04-2008
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, at the outset, I must congratulate the hon. Minister that after many, many years, the Demands for Grants relating to the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting could be discussed in the Lok Sabha.
Albeit it is a fact that his party’s leadership has not been fair to him and has deprived him of the Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs, yet as a young person, we have admired him from a distance. He has been a constant fighter against adventurism and opportunism of all kinds and especially from the Left in his home State. We admire him for that and we wish him all success in his able war against Left opportunism.
Sir, it is a matter of great concern that when the Ministry had proposed for the 11th Plan, an outlay of Rs. 16,829 crore, a meagre amount of Rs. 5,529 crore has been allotted to this Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.
It is an extremely sad incident although it has to be admitted that the demand of Rs.16,829 crore was four times of what was allotted in the Tenth Plan. That amount at that time was Rs.4,831 crore. It is about six times of what the Ministry could spend. Unfortunately, the Ministry could spend only Rs.2,808 crore in the Tenth Plan. It speaks volumes about the executives, about the bureaucrats and about the way the Ministry functioned in the last Plan. But it is said, never say die, and we hope that under this present administration—I would not use the word, regime—hopefully, a change will come about, especially because the media and entertainment industry in this country is growing at a whopping 18 per cent, which is much higher, nearly double of what the Indian economy is growing at. The size of this industry is estimated to double in the next five years, and to help in this growth, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting has to be extremely industry friendly.
15.41 hrs.
(Shri Varkala Radhakrishnan in the Chair)
We have heard many hon. Members of Parliament criticizing fortune forecast, criticizing star gazing, criticizing movies, which is all fine, to say that this is bad, and only show us things that will teach us how to save ourselves from HIV-AIDS or stuff like that. We admit that, as a public service broadcaster, both Doordarshan as a television network and All-India Radio as a radio network.We have immense responsibility. But whether these responsibilities are being well-cared for and whether the Ministry is aware of its responsibilities is a big question mark. A simple thing is that till February, 2008, Prasar Bharati Board had seven vacancies. The Government could not fill up the vacancies. Surprisingly, there was not even a DG of AIR and Doordarshan. Similarly, when we see the development taking place in the sector of media, we find that the whole world has migrated to HDTV, High Definition Television. It will definitely mark a paradigm shift if Doordarshan could get on to the HDTV platform.I have been a Member of the IT Committee for the past four years, I know that the Committee has been recommending that Doordarshan and the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting have to concentrate and move ahead. It is unfortunate that in our 43rd Report, the Committee had very strongly recommended that HDTV is the next step forward to go to meet the future, and it should be taken care of. But a year has passed by, and nothing has been achieved in this field.I would like to mention something about the Children’s Film Society of India. At one point of time, it was decided that the CFSI will set up an integrated unit at an integrated place where they will produce; they will exhibit; and they will do all ancillary works at Hyderabad. Nearly Rs.7 lakh was spent on that. But, unfortunately, although everybody in the Ministry knew that CFSI is a very small establishment and it has majority of its people in Mumbai, yet when you wanted to migrate to Hyderabad, nothing really was done in Hyderabad, and today CFSI is as it was 10 years or 20 years ago.
The world is changing. We are in the 21st century. It is essential that we educate, we inform and we entertain our children also. How do we do that? Are we giving enough importance to the Chidren’s Film Society of India? We are not doing it. I would take this opportunity to request the hon. Minister that he should sincerely think of taking it out from Hyderabad. I am not speaking against Hyderabad or Andhra Pradesh. But I am saying that in these nine years since no response has been received by your Ministry, I would invite you and our Government, Biju Janata Dal Government, led by Shri Naveen Patnaik, would be happy to invite you and we would request you to put up a CFSI integrated project at Bhubaneswar or any other place that you think is suitable in Orissa like Sambhalpur or even Kalahandi. It would go a long way in not only helping the eastern part of the country but you will be able to attract lots of talents from Bengal, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Andhra Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh which is a huge part of this country, to come and work there. You will only encourage them and you have to think in these lines.
Sir, another point that I would like to mention is about the international channel of Doordarshan. There are two channels of Doordarshan – DD News and DD India – which could actually compete. Many of us are speaking against CNN or speaking against BBC. I would consider that we have arrived at a stage, we have arrived at an age where we have to respect competition, not denigrate them. It is necessary that we understand why are they successful. When the same leaders in this House speak against CNN they must realise why are they watching CNN or even BBC. They are watching it themselves because those channels seem to be more dependable. … (Interruptions)
Sir, I need more time. Today, fortunately, for Doordarshan all the private news channels have become, kind of, repetitive. If a boy falls into a well that is big news for all channels for the whole day. If a lady is brutally beaten up by some of her neighbours, that is news for the whole day. That is fodder for these channels for the whole day. I have travelled to different countries. People there, not only people of Indian origin but people of those countries are interested to know what is happening in India. You take the example of North African countries, Central African countries. You take the example of all the five CIS countries. Right from North Africa up to Indonesia and Malaysia – all these countries love Indian programmes, they love Indian movies and they love Indian songs and culture.
Sir, in today’s world when you are fighting the Left, we also say that imperialism of that kind must be set aside. This is an age when you have to be imperialistic in your culture. The Indian culture can completely destroy every culture – not destroy, but I would correct myself – can overtake every other culture and you can beam programmes to all these countries and they would love to watch Indian programming which unfortunately we are not able to do.
In all the CIS countries you cannot watch any Indian TV channel unless you take Indian cable operator’s connection or Indian satellite dish antenna. We should also think how we can make the international channel of DD proactive, how it can reach other countries and how you have to negotiate with other satellite operators that they beam these two channels and we spread our cultural imperialism through that. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, you promised me more time. The FM was supposed to be for the public at large. But today what do we see? The FM has been cornered by two-three industrial groups. They are getting an access or free run throughout this country just because they have millions and millions of dollars. Those people now calculate only in dollars. Only you, as a Leftist leader, and I, as a common man, think of Indian rupees. We have the highest regards for you. The BJD as a group has the highest regard for you.
Sir, you and I calculate in Indian rupees, but they calculate in US dollars. They have billions of US dollars, and they can buy properties all over the country and all over the world and they are also taking over FM in large numbers. I would request the hon. Minister to look at this policy once again to bring into the FM sector, at least, a sensibility and a sort of level-playing field where small operators — who are socially more responsible — come in and play a socially more vital role.
Today, only the rich and the famous have a say in India. When you are giving out FM stations, you are either looking at the big money people or you are looking at your political supporters as is very evident in Orissa itself where out of three stations, two belong to big industrial houses and one belongs to a Congress supporting organisation. It is indeed a sad case, and I would expect and request the Minister that a time has come when he has to think of allowing colleges, universities, journalism institutes including your IIMC to have citizens band radio or FM stations at a very low affordable cost whereby they can carry the Government’s message. Government is a perpetual thing, and I am not saying UPA or NDA, and I have not specified any political groupism. I am only saying that the Government’s message should reach in a more effective manner to the people.
It is essential that a realistic view … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have covered all points. Therefore, please conclude your speech.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I will mention a couple of points more, and I will conclude my speech. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let Shri Suresh Prabhu speak now.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : The DD used to have programmes on literary giants of different States, and today those programmes have been stopped. We do not know the reason for these programmes being stopped. Is it a lack of sponsorship or initiative taken by your officers and bureaucrats? You have to look into this issue also.
Recently, there was a huge social diwas in Orissa called the Ashok Ashtami, which is not only celebrated in Orissa, but in many parts of Eastern India also. There were more than three lakh people congregated in front of the Lingraj Temple in Bhuwaneswar on Ashok Ashtami day, but surprisingly, DD, Bhuwaneswar did not have a single line about that news. On the contrary, DD goes out of its way to cover some silly social programme with some silly dancer from the movies or some theatre personality who has no social relevance at all.
On the one hand, while we are criticizing film personalities and the movie culture, we have to admit two things. We lack in social leadership because of which we have nobody else to fill up the vacuum, which if the film industry is not there today, could be filled up. On the other hand, we have to admire the film industry for what it is doing for the image of India. Outside India, people think that all these MPs, politicians run after women as these are beautiful women who are capable of coming into movies.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Suresh Prabhu, you can start your speech.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Yet, in reality, we know that it is not that everybody is a millionaire in India and everybody is not driving big cars. But, unfortunately, the Government also has to realize that the voice of the poor masses and the middle-class has to be heard, and you cannot ignore them.MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude your speech.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, since you are insistent, I will cut my speech short as I respect you. Therefore, I will mention very briefly to the hon. Minister that my constituency Dhenkanal has had the good fortune of having an IIMC put up there by one of his predecessors.
MR. CHAIRMAN: How can this debate continue if you do not cooperate with the Chair?… (Interruptions)
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : It is a very good institute, but no attention is being paid to IIMC. Therefore, I would request the hon. Minister that IIMC, Dhenkanal should have a full-time principal. It does not even have a full-time principal. There is only one person in-charge, who is doing a good work. Even IIMC, Delhi does not have a principal. Therefore, I would request that IIMCs both at Delhi and Dhenkanal should have full-time principals.[r20] They must be given the full Faculty.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Suresh Prabhu, you can start. All normal methods have failed. This is a difficult job. If you do not cooperate, how can we conduct this business?
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, it will be done.
The Minister should also ensure that good Faculty is given to these Institutes so that these Institutes become successful.
MR. CHAIRMAN: If you have any additional points, you give them in writing. You need not take the time of the House.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : When Doordarshan started in 1972-73, when again there was an I&B Minister from our home State of Orissa, there was a studio in Sambhalpur in Western Orissa. Western Orissa has been a neglected area of this country by the federal Government. I would request this hon. Minister that the Doordarshan Station in Sambhalpur should be immediately reactivated and upgraded. It should start functioning as a full-fledged Doordarshan Station from this fiscal year.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Suresh Prabhu, you can start your speech. His further speech will not come on record.
I tried my level best several times. Please conclude. With all respect to you I tell you, please conclude.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I am concluding, Sir.
The Censor Board is another bone of contention. Nobody comes to know what the criteria for selecting the members of the Censor Boards in different parts of the country are. Who are the members? How are they chosen? Are they chosen with political motives? Are they chosen because of their social standing? Are they chosen for their qualification or specialization in fields concerning media or films? Who are they? This question troubles many people in this country. Today many hon. Members were shouting that there is obscenity in media today and there is nobody to check. This is one small example.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is the difficulty in concluding? I do not understand this. People who cannot control themselves, what can they do?
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, I take you as my guide. When you are here, you are our guide. We respect you, Sir. You are our role model, Sir. Everybody accepts that, Sir. Even your colleagues accept it. As a role model we respect you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record now.
(Interruptions) … *
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Kindly do not be cruel to me, Sir. I represent a backward State of Orissa.
MR. CHAIRMAN: This is obstructing the proceedings of the House.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, at the end I would like to say that today a stage has come when the newspaper industry in this country is mortally in threat of death. All small and medium, especially regional, dailies are about to close shop because newsprint prices have gone up.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The microphones will be off now.
Statutory resolution regarding disapproval of the Prasar Bharati (Broadcasting Corporation of India) Amendment Ordinance, 2008(no.5 of 2008) and Prasar Bharati (Broadcasting Corporation of India) Amendment Bill, 2008.
Date:17-03-2008
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, I stand today to seriously oppose the Prasar Bharati (Broadcasting Corporation of India) Amendment Bill, 2008. From the very manner in which this Bill has been prepared and the statement given by the Minister on July 1, there appears to be a huge contradiction. This Bill, if taken prima facie, is a very superficial Bill. It seems like someone in authority in Prasar Bharati probably did not please the powers that be, sufficiently enough that they considered the person eligible to continue in that post.
There was a mindset in the earlier days when AIR was called ‘All Indira Radio’. There was also a mindset in the late ‘80s where people considered that the then Prime Minister, the Congress Prime Minister, had so much exposure on Doordarshan that the word ‘burnt out’ was used, that he burnt himself out, and the election results of 1989 showed to the nation that over-exposure through the media can definitely harm the person who is in power. But the desire of, I assume, every politician is that this red light should always be burning, should always be on and my voice should be the loudest in the House, my face should always be on the TV screen and my speeches should be always on AIR. So, this ‘my’ impression has willy-nilly demolished the credibility of both Doordarshan and AIR, as a result of which the creature that is coming out of these two organisations is the Prasar Bharati.It is a welcome step, but it is again initiated by non-Congress Governments in the past of which one of the present Congress Ministers — who was earlier in the non-Congress Government, namely, Shri S. Jaipal Reddy — was one of the architects. The Prasar Bharati concept came about when people who loved democracy in this country considered that these strong media should be independent and should strive for the development of the country and not just promote a few inpiduals.
I come from a Constituency in Orissa, namely, Dhenkanal that has had the pride of giving two Information and Broadcasting Ministers to this nation. It is a pity that today we have come to a level where we — this august House — have to hit out and pass a Bill to omit certain inpiduals. When we talk of the Chairman and when we want to bring down his longevity in the Chair from six years to three years, we take his age limit — I assume the last person who was there was above 86 years of age, and we have to bring it down to 70 years — to ensure that certain people are thrown out of their seats. But a time has come when this House and the Government has to consider putting people in Prasar Bharati, who are of age that matches the majority age of this nation.
We are creating programmes in the Government media that nobody wants to watch. Many hon. Members who spoke before me have mentioned this point. Some of them have praised the Government media. Probably, they have felt that in crisis like Nandigram or some such event the Government media gave a very twisted version, which suited some people. But when everybody else was giving different versions and were listening to the people’s voices, the impression that went out all over the country was probably more correct than what the Government media had tried to project.
I do not stand here as an apologist for private broadcasters, but today we have to admit that opening up our broadcasting system to private players has definitely brought in competition and better quality of programmes. People are definitely exposed to very many more things today than they were exposed to earlier. But it is a difficult thing …
(Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Satpathy, the time allotted for this discussion is only two hours, and many more hon. Members have to speak on this subject. Therefore, please be brief.
SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, please give him some more time to speak. … (Interruptions)
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Thank you, Sir. I will be extremely brief. It is very difficult to be judgemental and to say that certain channel is bad or certain programmes are bad. I think that you have to offer today’s youth everything that is available in this world, and it is for them to choose what they think is necessary for their growth. But, unfortunately, both your broadcasting arms under the Prasar Bharati have successfully failed to provide this for the youth of India.
It is necessary — when we see such Bills that are flimsy and do not have much content — that the hon. Minister starts thinking on the lines of actually giving autonomy to the Prasar Bharati. It is very important that Doordarshan and AIR are made a profit centre by itself in every State.You have to compel the people working there – Doordarshan directors, the All India Radio directors – that they are accountable not to the Government, but to this House. If the Government has given them money, it is the bounden duty of the Government to definitely finance these organizations till they come off age and become sufficiently economically viable. Till such stage, the Government should help them. But at the same time and as a parallel step, the Government has to ensure that the people who are in-charge of these broadcasting arms make an effort to ensure that it becomes an economically viable and a free profit centre whereby true freedom will be coming down on them. Until that happens, as long as Doordarshan and AIR are at the mercy of the Government, this kind of an interference by politicians and more so by bureaucrats who want to please the politicians for their own benefit will continue.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I would like to lastly say one thing that although it is a good move to bring down the age, but even 70 years for the Chairman of Prasar Bharati is a very old age. The Government has to seriously consider how to hire private players or people who have experience, successful track records in private broadcasting companies, attract them with good salaries, with good perks, facilities and sufficient freedom so that in the foreseeable future, it will be possible to make both wings of Prasar Bharati competitive players in the field of broadcasting. This field is becoming more and more competitive. In future, it will be a cut-throat race, so it is essential that the Government wakes up to the existing system, instead of making cosmetic changes just for political benefits.
I reaffirm my opposition to this Bill, and thank you for giving me this opportunity.
General discussion on the Budget (General ) for 2008-2009 (Discussion Not Concluded)
Date:12-03-2008
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Mr. Chairman, Sir, in a very hesitating manner I wish to support this Budget because the media and everybody has bashed this Budget as being an ‘Election Budget’. But my understanding, as far as it goes, is that I am convinced that any Budget that helps the common man, obviously the voter, is the success of the Government or of the governance system. So even though I sit in the Opposition Benches, a move that supports the farmers, the neediest of the needy in this country, is to be welcomed by all. But it is another matter that in the Supplementary Budget of 2007-08, a meagre amount of Rs. 100 crore has been marked to be included in this scheme and the rumours go that when actually the scheme will be worked out, 3 per cent will be borne by the Central Government, 30 per cent will be borne by financial institutions but the major chunk of 40 per cent – this is the suspicion, the hon. Finance Minister can clarify – will be dumped on the States’ shoulders with the hope that the States will meet this amount. As we all know, this will never happen and the pity is that although it is a welcome step, but this step should have been followed by the Finance Minister and this UPA Government not only in the fifth year, it should have been done in the past four years too.
Sir, as we all know, Machiavelli used to say that you can do whatever wrong you want in the beginning, but just before you kick the bucket if you do something good, people will remember that you were a good man. But Machiavelli, unfortunately, lived and walked on this earth many centuries ago and in the beginning of the 21st Century, the young common India is very aware. People do not forget, people remember the mindset of those who govern. When a Prime Minister uses the words ‘Congress Regime, NDA Regime’, the message goes clearly to the people that that old mindset of a regime still persists in this Government. Where does the word ‘regime’ come from? It comes from regiment, regimentation, regimen — a military word or at best a bureaucratic word. It is also a colonial word.
Although, supporting this Budget, which is intended to help the farmers, when we see the sheer figures of Rs.60,000 crore to be pided by four crore farmers, it is a meagre Rs.15,000 per head. When banks are asked to invest 18 per cent on the farming sector, the best performance in my State of Orissa has been 11 per cent, banks are unwilling to invest with farmers. So, your institutional financing is so low that you will not really reach out to the needy. But come what may, even the newspapers say that this will touch only 22 per cent of the farmers. We must all welcome it because even if it is 22 per cent and alas if this Government would have done it in the last four years also, then it would have reached 100 plus per cent of the needy farmers by now. But in the past years, the investment was for superficial foreign investors, the investment was for SEZs, the investment was for people who were rich and who were powerful.The Budget was decided not in Delhi. It was decided in Mumbai, in Dalal Street and all dalals got together to control this country’s Budget. It is sad when the Prime Minister very categorically said, which is a negative point and I do not support if the past Government had done this, that the NDA controlled inflation by keeping the support price to farmers depressed. But what are you doing now? You are taking the very land the farmer depends on for his survival and giving it to SEZs and big companies. In which way do you want to show that you want to bring about a collective change?This loan waiver is simply a sinister move to confuse the people. This is to spoil the habit of the small and the marginal farmers that if you do not pay your loans, if you become a conscious defaulter, if not today, tomorrow, two years later, five years later a Government will come with a brilliant Finance Minister like Mr. P. Chidambaram who will waive the loans. But who benefits from this? It is those farmers who have some kind of clout with the banking fraternity, with small politicians, with the goons in the villages, who know that their homes or their lands will not be mortgaged. They are the defaulters and they will be probably the ones who will be mostly benefited. But the real farmer who goes to the extent of committing suicide never defaults. He goes out of his way to ensure that the loan is paid back on time because he is scared for his daughter’s marriage, for his son’s education, for his home, for everything and he is not the one who is going to benefit. So, by this kind of a largess which is definitely welcome, they are also spoiling the habit of the farmers, they are also spoiling the habit of the people at large.The people are talking and saying that this is a clever trick.
17.00 hrs.
What is the trick? If you have a loan of Rs. 15,000, your loan is waived. If a big industrial magnate has Rs. 30,000 crore as loan, if his loan is waived, you have no reason or no right to complain about that. So, you are creating a mindset where waiving of loans is acceptable and is condoned by the lowest of the low, the poorest of the poor of this country. This is a dangerous move, if you keep the future of the nation in mind.
In the matter of energy transmission and distribution, in the Budget speech it was admitted that heavy investment, has to be made in this sector. We are now talking about the longevity of this Government and if the Left ever has shown any courage or any guts and whether it has the stamina to pull the rug from under this UPA Government. But, we all know that they cannot. The ground, what they claim, is the nuclear deal with the US. First of all, I do not know why it is called ‘with the US’ because it is simply a nuclear deal which is applicable to probably all countries. But anyhow this World Bank employee-led Government decided that it will be called the nuclear pact with the US. When you are not investing in energy transmission and distribution, you want to go and sign a nuclear treaty with other countries. But, have you made the simplest research of what is the requirement of energy for this nation in the coming decade, for the next ten years? Has there been a White Paper in this Parliament, by the Prime Minister or by the Energy Minister as to what will be the requirement of energy for the development of this country for the next 10 years, for the next 20 years? As far as I know, no such thing has been done. So, we are playing football without knowing where the goalpost is. Similarly, when we take this loan waiver, are we aware of what is the total quantum of cooperative loans in this country? What is the total quantum of other institutional loans in this country? Has it been given to Parliament? Have we, the people’s representatives, been enlightened? Has it been given to the media to enlighten the common people? Nothing of this sort has been done. Sir, Rs. 60,000 crore is a figure out of thin air. Obviously, as many learned speakers before me have said, no sources of funding have been highlighted. When the whole world is investing for greener sources of energy, alternative sources of energy, it finds no mention in this Budget. We live in a world where in the foreseeable future, known sources of carbon fuel will be depleted, will be finished. But, what are the alternatives? Have we started investing for them? We have not. I would like to come to the specific issues of my State. My State of Orissa has NSSF loans to the tune of Rs. 1997.24 crore outstanding as on 30.9.2007. This loan carries a high rate of interest of 10.5 per cent. In the interest of the State that is on the threshold of a major launch forward, it is necessary that the Central Government allow us, allow the Government to swap as a part of the Orissa Socio Economic Development Programme, at least 60 per cent under the Structural Adjustment Support from the World Bank. This means that we must be allowed to prepay this loan of 10.5 per cent because in the open market you can today avail loans at a much lower rate of interest.Similarly, as suggested by NDC Sub-Committee in their Memorandum No. F-18/1/2005/NS2/volume II of February 12, 2007, the State must be allowed to prepay high-debt, high-cost non-NSSF loans also.
At face value, this is a good budget. But whenever we hear the hon. Finance Minister talks about his achievements, he always talks about the ‘eight point something’ growth rate in GDP. But unfortunately when all of us, including the hon. Finance Minister go to our constituencies, we somehow have failed to see where this ‘eight point something’ growth rate has manifested itself. It is probably that in a country with 120 crore people, only eight per cent of the population is benefiting from this GDP growth and the rest 92 per cent of the people are desperately trying to make sure their ends meet.
Sir, Orissa has vast coal reserves and as a power surplus State, it has the capacity to export energy to other States, and we are exporting energy to other States also. But unfortunately, the system is that that the electricity duty is collected by the importing State and not by the State which is exporting. We are the ones who are losing out our natural
resources like coal and we are the ones who are condemned to suffer the externalities like environmental pollution and damage to water, air and environment but the advantage goes to those States which import power from us. Sir, if 1,000 MW of power is generated in Orissa and evacuated, the importing State gets Rs. 100 crore as electricity duty. Under this circumstance, it is necessary that the situation should be reversed. The Central Government has to think of giving at least 20 per cent power free to Orissa from any unit that is using coal and resources of Orissa and exporting it outside the State. If they cannot give 20 per cent power, they must allow the State to levy a duty on generation.
The Central Sales Tax is phased out. We all know that it has already come down from four per cent to three per cent. This commencement of reduction is affecting not only Orissa but I assume it is affecting all the States.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly conclude now.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, kindly allow me to speak for a couple of minutes more.
Sir, because of this huge loss sustained by the State, the CST loss must be compensated by the Union Government in the form of cash. The Orissa Government has budgeted Rs. 1,321.39 crore for 27 externally-aided projects in 2008-09. The Central assistance is only anticipated, and we do not know what kindness will be shown to us because in this Budget, somehow Orissa has not got anything. The Central assistance that is anticipated is Rs. 1,262.86 crore. Of these 27 projects, 14 projects are on-going. Out of the rest 13 projects, one project has been accorded clearance by the Central Government, and the rest 12 projects are awaiting clearance from the Government of India. These 12 projects should be expeditiously cleared by the Central Government.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, I am going to call another hon. Member to speak.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, I have only one last point.
Although coal, iron ore, bauxite and chrome are contributing 98 per cent of mining revenues, the royalty on iron ore is being levied on tonnage basis and chrome ore is being determined on a ridiculously low rate determined by the Indian Bureau of Mines. There is a demand of the people of not only from Orissa but also our neighbouring States.
Our State Government has written to the Central Government also that the royalty for the State must be fixed keeping the market or ad valorum price in mind.
It is a matter of disgrace for all of us that even today, in the 21st Century, we still take out our natural resources and sell it without getting the proper price. We talk about poverty; we talk about backwardness; we talk about trying to develop people; but we do not enable the same people to build their own reserves, and to build their own resources by which they can build themselves.
Orissa is an ideal State, and the nation has to learn a lot from this State. If Orissa is given the strength and is supported not only financially but in every other way, it can be an ideal State in every sense, economically it can be a viable State, which can fend for other neighbouring States also. But unfortunately, the UPA Government has not thought it fit; and the step-fatherly attitude — I do not use ‘step-motherly’ because why should only mothers be step… (Interruptions) – the discriminatory attitude of the UPA Government is strongly condemned.
I hope, after the next elections, a Government will come into existence, which will also decide that an institution like the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, an Institute of Higher Education would come up in the rural areas. We have excessive problems with doctors not willing to go to rural areas. It is necessary that the Central Government has to fund Medical Colleges at the Government level.
17.12 hrs.
(Shri Varkala Radhakrishnan in the Chair)
Sir, as we know that the private medical colleges take a lot of money from students, which normal middle-class students cannot afford, therefore, the Central Government has to assist the States like Orissa, to set up medical colleges whereby you can create doctors. Maybe not with the full five years, you can condense the course and create doctors, who will be willing to go to the rural areas, to fend for the poor. It is of vital importance that the Higher Institutes of Learning like IIT, IIM, AIIMS and medical colleges are set up in Orissa. I demand that they should not be set up in the urban areas. It is wrong mindset, it is a regime mindset. Let us break free of this regime mindset and let us think of the rural areas, the villages of Orissa where we should take and place these institutes so that the ensuing infrastructure also takes place in those areas.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, just in one minute, I am concluding.
Last but not least, I would suggest to the hon. Finance Minister about this waiver of Rs. 60,000 crore loan to the farmers. It is the wish of the common man of India about this Rs. 60,000 crore loan waiver that if this kind of money would have been given in the past five years to develop infrastructural facilities for farming like irrigation projects, communication, crop insurance and electricity to the farmers, then in these five years, you would have made every single small and marginal farmer of India self-sufficient; his backbone would have been strong enough to pay back all your loans; and you need not have gone in for this kind of a sinister, surreptitious move, which everybody in this House, doubts including people from your own ruling allies.