Date: 12-12-2006
SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, I stand today to discuss the Central Institute of English and Foreign Languages University Bill, 2006.

As is evident from this Bill, it is already a fait accompli, as it has already been passed in the Rajya Sabha. We cannot even bring amendments. It mostly goes into the administrative part of this Institute not outlining what vision has gone behind this move to change this Institute from a mere institute or a society into a Deemed University in 1973 and now a proper University in 2006. It is very well known that our level of education is low. It is not that English is not taught in our schools. It is taught in our schools; it is taught in our colleges. In most Universities and Colleges, the language of education is English. Yet, we find today that our youths in this country are unable to express themselves in any language. Forget English, if in their own mother tongue they write something, they are not able to read their own handwriting. When English is taught, it is taught in such a bad manner, in such a haphazard manner that there is no comprehension between the language that is spoken and what is intended. What this Bill does not project is this. Although huge amounts of money will be spent for this University, it does not say what qualifications the teachers or the instructors need to have to become faculty in this University. Will they be like the teachers of other schools and colleges or they will be teachers with special merit? What is required is to teach the teachers first how to teach a language. We have the Language Committee of Parliament which goes around the country, goes around to all the Offices including establishments that do research in this country. It forces them that they do everything in Hindi, and they make a joke out of it. There is a little blackboard in all these Offices and one single word in Hindi will be written in it, and it will be said: “Today’s word in Hindi…” and English will be given; like “Thank You” and below that it will be written: “Dhanyavad”. What are we trying to say? We are trying to say that everybody knows English and through English we learn Hindi. These moves seem very irrelevant and childish to me because they do not seem to hold much water.

Hyderabad will be the seat of this University and they will have branches in Shillong and Lucknow, which is welcomed. But, I would like to draw attention to clause 6, sub-Section X and XI where it says that this University can expand. Thought could be given to expand the horizon so that people from all parts of the nation could benefit from such Institutes of higher learning.

Chairman, Sir, I would like to speak about your home State. I like your home State very much. Orissa has consistently helped in augmenting the wealth of this country. It has done so in the past. In the shape of freight rationalization, it is doing so right now whether it is the pet project of some very big and powerful people here setting up industries in Orissa exploiting our mines and mineral wealth, but per se if we see the State, nothing has been done for the State. The Prime Minister when he visited Orissa recently said that instead of National Institute of Science (NIS), an IISER would be set up in Orissa which would definitely be an institute of higher learning, which would benefit the people of that State, not only that State – it would not only be limited to that geographical boundary – it would benefit that whole part of India. But, alas, nothing of the sort has happened; no move has taken place as of now. As a return gesture, I think, Orissa deserves to be counted in. When you are thinking of such an Institute in Hyderabad, you should also think of an IISER or a Language Institute in Orissa which can help the people of that State.

Now, what this Government has to think is this. With our huge population, we always say that we have the workforce which is predominant in number. Everybody admits that our workforce is incapable. It is no longer considered that setting up an industry in India will give you a cheaper workforce because of inefficiency and because of inability to work properly on time and to meet the deadlines. Therefore, we have to train our workforce and we have to enable them. Language will be one major way by which you can expect our workforce to become stronger, more able and more competitive at an international level.

We have to recognize that although many Indians speak English, most of our teachers and accordingly students have no control over that language and thus deprived of this benefit, poor students in India remain non-competitive in the corporate sectors such as hospitality business.

Sir, it is said that Hindi is important. Of course, we respect Hindi but Hindi alone cannot solve all the problems of our country. It is just one language. All languages are equally important and have to be respected equally. Sir, my language and your language, Oriya is not a derivative of Sanskrit as many would like to think. It is a derivative of Pali. Being an ancient language, you need to develop that language also as a source of communication.

Sir, I come to my last point. In conclusion, I can say that although English would be taught in this Institute, it is no where mentioned in this Bill as to what other languages are going to be taught in this Institute. So, to enable the future generation of Indians, young boys and girls to be competitive in the international market, we have to teach them Spanish, French, Mandarin, and Japanese and Arabic also because our hon. Members from Kerala know that their voters go to Dubai, Bahrain and Qatar. So, let us have Arabic also. But these things have to be specified. This is just an administrative piece of paper as to who will do what. I think, this needs a re-think.

Date:30-11-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL):  Madam Chairperson, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to speak.

As we all know,  a badly managed company produces something that is of low quality and high price.   We see  something very similar with this Government.  Obviously, it has become very expensive for an inefficient Government to manage  and because managing this country is so expensive, the price eventually for that expense has to be borne by the aam admi.      The Government speaks about aam admi.  The UPA slogans are aimed at the aam admi.  But if we see the way they have acted in  the past two and a half years, it has primarily been against the interests of aam admi.  That is because today a situation has come where the ruling class, whether it is MLAs or MPs, has willingly or unwillingly;  knowingly or unknowingly, distanced itself from the public, from the masses.  They have become a class unto themselves.   Earlier, the bureaucracy was a class unto itself and it used to govern.  But the political side of the government was with  the people.  So, they used to rein in the bureaucracy.  But now, under the changed circumstances, with all your globalization  and liberalization, etc., the competition between bureaucracy and the political class is to out-do each other;  not in  representing the aam admi or the public, but to please MNCs, big companies, rich and the haves.  My feeling is that today  nobody represents the have-nots in the social system, in the political system, or in the bureaucratic hierarchy in India.   That is the main reason why we do not see any agitation against the price rise in any corner of this country.  It is not that  the aam admi is not affected, but there is no leadership today which agitates.  It does not suit anybody.  It does not suit  this side, that side, middle side, front side.  Everybody has become quiet.  So, obviously that kind of governance percolates  down to the common man and his life becomes unbearable and expensive. 

In my State of Orissa, in the last three days, the price of atta has gone up by Rs. 3.  It has culminated in atta  costing nearly Rs. 16.50 per kilogram; the price of suji has gone up by Rs. 2; the price of maida has gone up by Rs. 2; the  price of edible oils has gone up by Rs. 4 per kilogram; the price of red chilly has gone up by Rs. 40 per kilo, to cost Rs.  100 in the last fifteen days.  This shows that the market forces are having a free run in our essential commodities scenario. 

The Government should never be meddlesome.  We all agree to that.  But the Government should also not be a mere by-stander, a  spectator.  That is exactly what is happening today in this country.  Non-implementation of laws, like the Essential  Commodities Act, shows that the Government is inept and ineffective.  I am not blaming any political party.  I am saying that  the way in which the governance is administered in this country, it has resulted in such a situation where the Government has  no teeth.  We are not acting against the hoarders and profiteers any more.  Making profit is acceptable, but profiteering is  not. Nobody is interested to work against them.  This is the situation where the political class has landed itself in India.   The futures or options trading and speculation in essential commodities, in my opinion, should be immediately banned.  Anti- hoarding drive could help in easing the situation. 

The Government also has to re-think on the policy of procurement.  You would be aware that some decades ago people all over  this country were prodded or were encouraged to quit eating rice and to go in more for wheat.  It is because at that time due  to Green Revolution, the wheat production had gone up.  But today we find that procurement of wheat has gone down.  Wheat is  getting more expensive.  But because the wheat lobby is strong, the insistence on wheat is still retained.

States like Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Kerala and Tamil Nadu can produce enough rice to feed the whole country.  But the  production of rice is not being encouraged.  About the procurement policy, the procurement price is not being hiked in the  case of rice.  If we could encourage the people of this country to go in for more rice eating, it could help us in bridging  this gap.  

Our Government is unwilling to buy wheat from our domestic producers at a high price.  But we are more than happy  to import wheat at a much higher price and that wheat, by the way, is of lower quality also.  But that does not disturb us.   We are happy as long as we are importing and somewhere down the line or up the line, a middleman is benefiting.  Again, there  is this emphasis that the wheat lobby is stronger and the rice producing States do not have the lobby.  Therefore, this is  being relegated to the background. … (Interruptions)  In my opinion, since from the days of globalization, we are only  talking of investments in soft drinks, chewing gum etc,.  we should also think about inviting private investment, even  international investment in building up infrastructure for storing of food. 

Madam, you must have seen in your constituency, if you would ever visit the FCI godowns, you will find the way  the maintenance is done, the way the ceilings are leaking, the way the flooring has virtually vanished, rats, moisture, etc.  that are destroying the items that are stored there.  But we do not take any pains to upgrade our storage facilities.  On the  other hand, the Government has set itself into such a mode that it allows a certain percentage of wastage although in today’s  situation with the transport system and improvement in storage facilities, if it could be worked out, it could help in saving  that percentage.  But because we simply write it off that this is a percentage which will be wasted, we do not bother to  check whether in reality that percentage is getting wasted or not.  That is also hiking up the prices of many essential  commodities even though we find that in reality, there is no such wastage.  The wastage quantities have gone down and there  is profiteering in that also. 

Our hon. Minister of Agriculture is a person who has excelled in the world of cooperative movements.  If he could  think, he has the ability, he has the vision and he can easily do it.  If he thinks of subsidizing cold storages especially  their electricity consumption, their electricity bills to a great extent, this would help in preserving a lot of vegetables  and fruits and that would also ease the prices.

One of our colleagues was talking about rise in prices of fruits and vegetables during festival times.  It is  that particular problem that could be solved by cold storages.  But we know the availability of electricity and the rise in  price, for example, extreme price of electricity is making cold storages totally unviable.  The Government must come up with  the plan. The hon. Minister of Agriculture is somebody who is capable of doing it, of coming up with the plan.  If you can  subsidize fertilizers, if America can subsidize cold storages and storage facilities, we should also consider it.  So,  instead of thinking about GATT and WTO, we should also think of subsidizing the end part of the agricultural system.  …  (Interruptions) Madam, what we find is that if we look into it a little more in detail, we can find out that who is helped by  the price rise.  Is it helping the farmer?  The answer definitely will be no.  It is not helping the farmer.

So, who is it helping? It is not helping the Government. The Government would definitely try to restrict the rise  in prices. It is not helping the farmer who is producing the foodstuff. So, eventually it is the middlemen, the business  community, who are benefiting the most from price rise and this is because of poor logistic. The Government also has to  ensure that the logistic situation in this country improves.

The Government should consider paying more to the farmers while procuring the foodstuff from them. This will help  the farmer and keep the Government buffered against times of shortages. Procurement at the right price and right time, in  sufficient quantities, will prevent hoarding by middlemen and the Government should be the hoarding agent. The Government  should control the prices by having enough food stock. This will, in turn, stabilize the market psychologically.

Sir, the bare truth is that no party or no political person represents the Aam Aadmi and least of all the one  group or the one conglomerate that is ruling this country now. The Aam Aadmi, for them, is dead and gone. Their slogan is  mostly aimed at quietening the Opposition, but not for looking after the poor person who lives in this country. Therefore, a  time has come, a time of reckoning, where we have to rethink. The Government, in my opinion, today does not represent the  people. We are all victims of price rise because the people who govern this country are bureaucrats and no matter which  political party sits in the Treasury Benches, they go out of their way to support this bureaucracy and eventually suppress  the common man, the man on the street.

Date:25-08-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, the Wild Life (Protection) Amendment Bill, 2006 is a shame on the intelligence of  Indians as a race. I am unable to support this Bill because it seems this House is adept at bringing everything down to  politics. Everybody is impatient to run through this Bill and get it over with this like, how would I put it, another Money  Bill or something like that.

We are forgetting that man alone cannot exist on this planet.  We have to learn to co-exist with nature and  wildlife is something that is part and parcel of the existence of ecological balance and that alone will help mankind  survive.       

In India, today, we see how we have damaged the ecological balance and because of that States like Orissa, from  where I hail, we see every year immense damage that we have to face due to nature’s fury. Mankind has been blessed by the  Creator with two things that no other life on earth has.  The first is, intelligence; and the second is, rationality.  But  are we using these faculties in this House?  We have to question ourselves. I am questioning  myself.  I am not questioning  anybody else.  It seems like we are not using our basic intelligence because of our impatience to get through, get over the  work, and be done with it.   So, this kind of an attitude would create a situation where generations that would come after  us, would curse us for our shortsightedness and for our ignorance.

It is a well known fact that the Tiger as also the Lion are at the head of the Food Chain of land-based animals.  When we  destroy the Crown, be very very sure that we are going to  destroy the total balance that nature has created on earth.  Indirectly, this would also threaten the existence of mankind.  We all know that proliferation of herbivorous animals is destroying the green cover.  This has been realised in Africa; it has been realised in Australia for which  many African  countries have gone as far as bringing in their Armed Forces, their armies to protect animal reserves and to protect  wildlife. 

Plant eating animals release methane gas into the environment thereby damaging the ozone.  Man somehow only loves those  animals which are happy with man.  We like cattle, dogs, cats and only those that we can domesticate and we can use.  They  are the animals who have value for us in our life.  But  the world needs something else, we are not able to comprehend that. 

A great philosopher of India, Sri Aurobindo had said that the evolution is a process that will always take place and is  consistently taking place.  Monkey evolved into man and man will evolve into the superman. But the monkey did not cooperate  with evolution, therefore, it was left behind.  If man does not cooperate with evolution, a time may come, man may also be  left behind and the superman will go ahead of us.  We are at that kind of a juncture now.  This Bill is not a very simple  Bill for protecting only one specie  of animal, namely, the Tiger.  It is a Bill which will tell the future of this country,  the generations that are to come as to what was our vision about this country about the wildlife, about the flora and fauna  and as to what kind of a balance we wanted to create for this country.

I am the only speaker of my party.

MR. SPEAKER: Allotted time for your party is five minutes.  You have already taken five minutes.  I would give another two  minutes.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Thank you for being considerate.

I will come to the Bill.  I have just one or two pints.  This Bill envisages that Gram Sabhas will decide the  parameters of the Tiger reserve.  Gram Sabha will also decide as to whether the tribals or other forest dwellers should be  relocated or not.  We all know that Gram Sabhas cannot be demeaned.  They are the base of democracy and our whole edifice of  this structure depends on that kind of foundation.

But as people’s representatives, we also know what kind of people are there in the Gram Sabhas, how – for small and little  projects of very little consequence – the debates go on, how – during the debates – people start fighting, there is blood and  gore on the floors and people get hospitalized. That is the epitome and that is the peak of our Gram Sabhas. You want to hand  that over to that particular kind of people thinking that they will protect our flora and fauna. The House should consider  this. Is that a very wise thing? Is that the reaction of an intelligent and a rational human being? It is a fact and let us  accept it.

Man and tiger can never ever co-exist. Mankind has to sacrifice its conveniences in the interest of environment.  In other words, not only tiger, but also all such animals and birds, that need our care, our love and our understanding so  that they can survive and keep a balance on the Earth. We have to create core reserves and the Tiger Conservation Authority  has to have sweeping powers in those pockets. … (Interruptions) The Authority must not have so many members which is a very  important thing. If you see the way it is constituted, it will become a farce and nobody will have any power; and the Tribal  Affairs Ministry or the Ministry of Environment and Forests will make a complete joke of this whole project.

MR. SPEAKER: Please cooperate.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Just two more minutes.

Is it the desire of this House to give birth to more Sansar Chands? We have to think on those lines. It is my  earnest request that this wise House under your leadership, Sir, stalls this Bill. It is not an ordinary Bill where the  ‘ayes’ will have it and the ‘noes’ will keep shut. It is an extraordinary Bill. We have to feel it because we have no  representatives of vultures or tigers or lions here. They are mute and they are dumb; and we have to speak. There are many  tigers here – brave men; these brave men and women, and especially women, have to stand up and speak.

MR. SPEAKER: An hon. Member of your Party was in the Standing Committee which scrutinized this Bill.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : That is no excuse, if a member of my Party did a mistake.

MR. SPEAKER: You have a right to speak.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I am sorry if my Party member makes a mistake and does not raise his or her voice.

MR. SPEAKER: Okay, please conclude. You have taken thrice the time allotted.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I would pray and beseech this House that this Bill should not be passed. It is not man alone who  can exist. It is not only a few people who will decide with political interests, what should be and what should not be done  to the future of this country. It is my desire to stall the Bill and we teach children in schools and colleges, how to  protect the flora and fauna of this country. Let us not take an action today for which the future generations of India who  will live in this land tomorrow will be ashamed of our ignorance and our short-sightedness. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you for your cooperation.

Date:22-05-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am probably the only one who will be opposing this Bill. 

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : But somebody has to oppose and you have to hear the voice of the Opposition also.

First of all, why is this new Bill brought? This has been brought here to make NIFT as an institute. As of now, it is a society. Now, the Government is making it an institute, but they are not freeing it from the clutches of bureaucrats  of the Ministry of Textiles. It will remain in the same hands as it was earlier. They, at their sweet will, will decide as to  who will be the Director-General, who will be the Registrar etc. Everything will be decided by a group of officers. This is a  creative unit. It should have been encouraged to become free, to create young people, young boys and girls of this country  who will not look for job and who will not be servants, but they will decide, on their own, as to who will design, who will  create, not procreate – we have too many people in this country procreating – and will create new ideas and new designs. But  we are scuttling that. We are going in the old fashion of being dictated by bureaucrats.

Sir, look at our neighbour Pakistan, a much smaller country with much less population, but they are a much bigger  exporter of finished garments than us because their fashion institutes are funded by cotton companies. Here, in this Bill, if  you see Chapter-II, you will find as to how the bureaucrats are manipulating this institute. This is a small example I am  giving. This is to be noted. Clause 8 (2) of this Bill says:

“No bequest, donation or transfer of any property shall be accepted by the Institute, which in the opinion of the Board  involves conditions or obligations opposed to the spirit and object of this section.” So, a few officers will decide what is good for the large number of young boys and girls who will be fashion designers.

Sir, the history of the National Institute of Fashion Technology has a chequered career. As I said, it does not  create servants, but it creates creative young people with flair. As of now, NIFT gives diploma, but once this Bill is  passed, it will probably come up with degree and doctoral courses. But when a change is happening, why does not the Minister  use his political will to free it from the clutches of bureaucrats? He is a man who is known to have fought many battles in  his home State against very powerful forces, but in front of bureaucrats he bows down. Why does he not fight and make NIFT a  deemed university that it deserves? It can be made a deemed university and it should be compelled to become a profit-making  unit of this country. Let them take funding from private organisations. Till 1996, UNDP was funding NIFT. Till that time it  had some semblance of progress and development. BÉÖEU-BÉÖEU ÉÊ®ºÉSÉÇ cÉäiÉä lÉä, but since 1996 when UNDP stopped its  funding, all their research and other kind of work had stopped. They do not even have an electronic library. Now, they are  talking of creating a database to collect and maintain literature and materials available in the area of fashion technology  so as to develop a modern information centre within the country. Today, there is nothing within the country.  There is no  boundary any more.  This is the age of Internet.  You have to decide that you will create a database of designers, of  designs, but these have to be different from the rest of the world. 

Now, India is in a unique position.  We have our culture, our heritage, starting from Punjab right up to Tamil Nadu, from Gujarat, from where the hon. Minister hails, to Orissa and Assam.  Everywhere, there is traditional craft, there  is  traditional design.  Are we able to develop that? No, Sir, we are not able to develop that.

What are we doing? You will be surprised to know that till now when NIFT hires a teacher, they ask stupid  questions in the interview, which relate to the knowledge of English, to the knowledge of Mathematics, to the knowledge of  geography of that teacher.  But they do not ask the teacher about his aesthetics or her aesthetics. They do not ask the  teacher what creative work that person has done in the life time so that person can impart that knowledge to the students.

In my opinion, design is an art.  One cannot learn it in four or six months.  You have it inside or you do not  have it.  When you are a teacher if you have something and that is nurtured then you inculcate it. 

Today, what we see is that a lot of old faculty from NIFT is migrating.  They are going away.  Why are they going away?  We  should try to find that out. I know this Bill will be passed today and everybody will say ‘Ayes’ and you will also say the  ‘Ayes’ have it, the ‘Ayes’ have it.   But I want to put my protest on record.  Why is the good faculty of NIFT moving away?   It is primarily because they do not see any future in NIFT.  They do not see that they have any creative potential available  for them if they stick on in NIFT.  What is the NIFT management doing? They are threatening those people who are going away.   They are saying, if you leave us, you give us back your pay for the last two years or three years and compelling the faculty  to come back to NIFT.

Sir, you please tell that if a person or teacher is forced to work, what kind of teaching he can give to the students.  It  will not be a teaching from the heart, it will be a perfunctory thing.  This is a creative unit, but you are destroying it at  the bud itself.

Sir, getting a degree is definitely a wonderful thing.  But NIFT also needs to be associated with national and international  universities or such institutes.  I know of one person, a very young friend of mine, who was a student of Delhi NIFT, who  went to the US after getting his diploma from Delhi NIFT.  He got his admission in the Chicago Design Institute not on the  strength of the diploma of NIFT, Delhi, but on the strength of his BA degree. 

Sir, we have NIFT in Gandhinagar, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, Kolkata, Mumbai and Delhi.  But they are adding more  courses.  They have made a three-year course into a four-year course.  They are adding more students, but there is no  expansion of infrastructure.  They are not giving them the required machinery.  These things have to be taken into  consideration.

Lastly, I have three specific demands and basing on those demands, I oppose this Bill.  First is, it must be made into a  deemed university.  Second is, make it free from bureaucratic control and put a technocrat who knows fashion designing as the  head of NIFT.  Third, but one of the most important part, is make it a self-reliant profit making unit of its own so that it  does not become another Government owned institute, but it becomes a cauldron of talent which will evolve in this country,  but will spread its wings all over the world.

Date:18-05-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, the Union Duties of Excise (Electricity) Distribution Repeal Bill 2006 has been  brought before this House.  It again seems to be a very minor thing and as the hon. Minister said, there has been no  collection for the State Exchequer from this Act.  Therefore, the Government wishes to repeal this Bill. 

I would support this because any obsolete law that needs to be changed to make matters more efficient, timely and  updated should be done.  We all support this.  But there is a point that needs to be reminded and the Government has to take  into consideration and that is the issue of States that produce electricity.  States like Orissa, Bihar and other States,  which produce electricity, which have vast amount of coal and other reserves, they are the States which suffer. It is in the  sense that till now whatever electricity was being produced by NTPC and other Government companies that was transferred out  of the States which produce the electricity and was sold in different neighbouring States. 

For instance, electricity produced in Orissa was being sold in Andhra Pradesh, Pondicherry, Karnataka and many other places.   It was given to the Grid and also we had a direct line, one of the longest transmission lines is from Talcher, which is part  of my district, up to Karnataka.  The pity is that the Government has never in the past considered the plight of the States,  which produced electricity, which contributed the coal, which suffered from pollution.  All that those States got in return  was a meagre amount, which was given as a royalty for the coal that was used.

I would like to draw the attention of the Union Government, it is time  electricity is bothering this Government a lot, for  which we suddenly had George Bush come here and all efforts made, they changed colour and said that America is God, America  is loving us like nobody else has ever loved us, we want to go in for nuclear energy.  They started giving facts or factoid,  as the word today is, which is half truth and half imagination that nuclear energy will solve the problems of this country.

So, when you are concentrating on energy, when you are concentrating on creating new sources of energy to enable the India of  future to stand on its own legs, you also have to think of States which produce electricity and the suffering those people go  through because of pollution and because of destruction of land.

In return, in the past, you have not done it.  Now with this Repeal Bill, we will have to see what happens.  We will have to  see whether the excise duty that is collected from the States which are consuming electricity, will be transferred or shared  along with the State that is producing electricity.  This is something which I would like to underline and draw the attention  of the hon. Minister of Finance.  It should be taken note of. 

The second point, and the last point, is that wherever electricity is being produced, the pollution and damage is  so intense that it is necessary that apart from sharing the duties, you also take to task the organisations like NTPC that  they come up with a handsome amount of money each year for peripheral development wherever they are producing.  This is of  prime importance and I would like to draw the attention of the Government, please do not neglect this and take care of this. 

Date:17-05-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, I welcome this amending Bill brought forward by the hon. Home Minister. But the  brevity of this paper shows that not much thought has gone into this. It is a cosmetic change, a very superficial enactment.  As has been pointed out by the previous speaker, this amending Bill could probably be construed as a Bill meant to create a  constitutional post in every Ministry of every State included under the purview of this Bill. The Government is enacting by  law that wherever, in whichever State, namely, in the States of Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh, a post of  a Minister will be created who will be mandatorily there to satisfy the Constitutional requirements. It is good to have new  Ministers which will entail having new Secretaries, new clerks, new peons and new offices. More the bureaucracy, the merrier  the situation. But what do we aim to achieve by this? Has the Government, at any place, clarified that a Minister who will be  appointed to look after the well-being of the aboriginals or the tribal people of India of a particular State or area will  manditorily be a person from a reserved constituency? Will he be a person belonging to the Scheduled Tribe community? Or,  will he be somebody else who would be put there to look after the well-being of the tribals? This aspect needs to be  clarified. What we have seen in the past is that we have only shed crocodile tears for the people belonging to the Scheduled  Castes, the Scheduled Tribes and the people belonging to the Other Backward Castes. We saw it even today. But in reality none  of the gestures that the Government tries to show to these people through these Acts and policies percolates down to the ones  for whom they are meant.

Sir, we have not made any concerted efforts to develop the languages and dialects of the tribals in many areas of  India. In my State of Orissa, as far as I am aware there are at least 8-plus distinct languages or dialects of the tribal  people. The State of Orissa has a large chunk of tribal population. The tribals play a very major role in our socio-economic  development, in our political life. They are an integral part of the State of Orissa. If you would ever had been to the State  of Orissa you would have seen that the tribals of Orissa are unlike the tribals of any other place in the sense that they do  not need mercy; they do not need that somebody should spoon feed them.

They have the capacity and the tenacity to stand up and voice their opinion to be heard socially, economically and  politically and even in Oriya literature, the tribals have played a very major role.  We have had the pleasure and honour of  having Dr. Giridhar Gamang as our Chief Minister at a very crucial stage in the history of the State.  He has been an able  Chief Minister and has projected the fact that tribals in Orissa do matter. On the other hand, what have the consequent Union  Governments done for the tribals in the States of Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and Orissa? As the hon. Finance Minister is also  in the House, I would like to point out one fact.  Has there ever been an effort made by this Government or the previous  Government of giving special packages to the States which have large chunks of tribal population?   No steps have been taken  to develop their language, to allow them to lead their own lives by giving them economic freedom.  It is only possible when  special packages to States like Orissa are given to develop the tribal areas predominantly. Only then concentrated  developmental activities can take place.  It is a pity and you can yourselves see that, in areas like Koraput, Bolangir and  Kalahandi where we have large chunks of tribal people, development is very tardy.  It cannot be done only by creating a  Ministry and appointing a Minister.  We, the Biju Janata Dal, support the amendment but it should be very specifically  mentioned that the Minister also should be a tribal. There should also be a provision that whichever State is affected by  this should mandatorily have a Minister and also get a special package from the hon. Finance Minister to exclusively develop  the areas where tribals are predominant.

Date:20-03-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Madam, thank you for giving me this opportunity to give my little bit to the House on  this occasion.  Energy security has become a part of our new jargon or a jargon of this UPA Government, I think, since the  time we heard that Mr. George Bush, the second, is going to visit or bless India, and the Indian soil.  Before that, we never  heard of energy security.  It seemed like this nation was not very bothered about it.

I have a few questions that I would like to be clarified by the hon. Minister.

The hon. Minister is a personality who wins over all the hearts.  So, he has an advantage and, therefore, across the House,  across all borders, Members are supporting this Bill.  But why is this a Board and not a Commission is not very clear to us.   The moot point is, whether it will be people-friendly or will it be bureaucracy-friendly. 

Some of my colleagues, while speaking, have confused this Board probably with PCRA.  I would not like to get into that but it  is a fact that with growing middle class in India, with the price of small cars being brought down drastically in this  Budget, there will obviously be more consumption of fuel in this nation,  and a Regulatory Board is the need of the day.  We  see that in every sector , a Regulator  is coming up.  So, why not petroleum?

Madam, I am in the Information Technology Committee and I have a little experience that I would like to recount, and the  experience is of dealing with the activities of TRAI.  TRAI has a very nicely worded Universal Service Obligation, which  unfortunately none of the telecom operators are willing to abide by.  So, you do not obviously have telephone or hand phone  in the rural areas because nobody takes care of the USO.  Similarly, when you have such huge companies coming into the field  of petroleum and you have a regulatory body trying to control them, I do not think that anything in the shape of a USO will  be practicable in this scenario.

It seems that the Government is trying to wash off its hands and dump the whole matter into the laps of the bureaucrats, and  as is visible in Chapter VII clause 40 (2) the matters are appealable to the Appellate Tribunal and, therefore, the decisions  of the Board cannot be audited by  C&AG.  Therefore, you are keeping the acts of the Regulatory Board beyond the reach of  C&AG.  Will that not encourage corruption at very high places?  This is a question that obviously comes to our mind when we  think of this Board. 

It seems that we are handing over on a platter this important decision making process to bureaucrats who will be handpicked  by another group of bureaucrats as is evident in Chapter II, clause 4(2). 

When America is waging war across the globe to capture lands that have fossil fuel, we somehow probably do not understand  what will be the import of this material in our economic growth.  It seems that politicians probably hate politicians.   Therefore, as Shri Suresh Prabhu has very rightly said, none of the Members of this House can ever have a say in this  regulatory body.  This august House is eventually responsible to the people of this nation.  But something as important as  energy, fossil fuel, petroleum, diesel, kerosene, etc. have been handed over to those people who are not answerable to the  people of this nation.

It is probably the entry of many private players in this field today and in the future, which is instigating the  Government to take such a step. Obviously, the petroleum prices will be fixed by this Board in future. Now, there will be  this question. Who will manipulate this Board or who will regulate this regulatory body? The Government till now regulated  the prices of petroleum products. It was answerable to this House. It could be criticised and it could be pulled up. Many  times in the past we had seen roll backs, roll fronts and roll side ways. So, we had a system which was answerable to the  people. But when you have a body like this regulatory body, which you do not wish to claim to be a Commission, there cannot  be a voice of the people, which will govern this country. So, why do you keep people, who are not answerable to the nation,  in such positions where, tomorrow, they will decide the fate of the economic growth of this country?

I would like to know this from the hon. Minister, whom will the Board be answerable to. In the Bill it is said  that the Government can remove the members and it can nominate other members but the conditions are very vague, and they need  to be very clearly codified as to what will be the situation in which the Government can interfere. As is evident in clause  22 (1), the Board can get into the details. “The Board shall lay down, by regulations, the transportation tariffs for common  carriers or contract carriers..”. It can decide such minute details without being answerable to anybody in general.

Will the regulatory body be permitted to permit a price war? Will it control quality in a nation where we find  that even the Army is supplied with water as fuel in fuel tankers as was evident some years back? So, you are creating an  entity which will not be answerable to anybody. It will become a creature of its own creation created by the bureaucracy for  the bureaucracy and it shall operate also like that. Only a select few will choose their favourites and those favourites will  decide the fate of this country. Since both the sides of the House are involved in passing this Bill—one side had brought it  in 2002 and the other side is bringing it up right now in 2006—we, probably, have not much of a choice in deciding what will  be the fate of this Bill because it is evident it will be passed. But it is with regret that I must say that we are pushing  this country from a state of democracy to a state of bureaucracy, and we all should be very, very concerned about this.

MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Tathagata Satpathy, please conclude. Only two mintues are left.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I will not even take that much time.

It is because it will eventually affect the lives of the common man, which will be harmful to the nation in  future. 

Date:14-03-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, it is a pity that the ‘Red’ in this House is turning green with envy and  intolerance. I would like to set the record straight. Kalinganagar was not a place. In 1994 some land in Jajpur district was  earmarked for industrial estates. That was named Kalinganagar. The land at that time was valued much less than what it is  valued today. An amount of Rs. 36,000 per acre was given by the Government. The land was taken and the tribals were supposed  to leave possession. But since there were no industries coming in at that time, the tribals enjoyed the fruits of that land  from 1994 to February, 2006.

So, what I would like to submit is when you acquire land in 1994 and sell it in 2006, it is obvious that the  price will go up. But the original owners of the land did get the price that they deserved although none of them had land  records. This must go on record. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please put your question.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : When you are creating infrastructure for industries, you need to invest. So, that investment on the  part of the Government could be done only with the sale of the land. … (Interruptions) Sir, I would like to bring one thing  to your notice. It is very sad that in this House there is a very concerted effort by a certain group of people from one particular neighbouring State of Orissa to create a feeling of tribals and non-tribals. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, this is very objectionable. This should not go on record. … (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM (CALCUTTA  – NORTH EAST): Sir, what he is saying is not correct. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : He has not named any State.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, they are always doing this. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, this should not go on record. Why are you allowing it? … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Tathagata Satpathy.

(Interruptions)*

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, one particular group in the past raised all industrial issues of Orissa. That particular group  is intolerant of the development of Orissa. They are not interested that Orissa should be industrialised. … (Interruptions)  Their capital, their State had its heydays and the golden era. These are the same people who destroyed that State now. …  (Interruptions) When Orissa’s turn has come to prosper, they are intolerant of that.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : You please put your question.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, what he is saying is not correct. Why are you allowing it? … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, they are the ones who are encouraging left wing extremism to enter Orissa. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, why are you allowing this? … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : He has not named any State.

… (Interruptions[krr30])

*Not Recorded.

13.00 hrs.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, in Orissa, the Communist Party organised a Rath Yatra with the ashes of the cremated tribals  and took it around various parts of tribal-dominated Orissa, intending to foment trouble. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Put your question.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, I am coming to the question. Will the Federal Government consider a composite rehabilitation  and resettlement plan that can be modified by every State according to its needs? This is the first thing. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you. Now, hon. Home Minister.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions)*

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Anti-social elements were creating a pide in Orissa society by telling that these are the tribals  and these are the non-tribals. It is a pity. There is no difference between the tribals and the non-tribals. …  (Interruptions)

Date:09-03-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, this is a middle of the road, non-descriptive, meaningless Budget produced by a  brilliant mind.  It is a Budget aimed only at the rich, the high and the mighty.  But, unfortunately, it has completely  neglected certain areas of this nation which deserve total attention.   For example, my State of Orissa has been completely  neglected in this Budget and I would like to mention a few points in detail. Let us also remember that Orissa, along with  Bihar and a few other States, was a State which gave this country freight rationalisation for a very long time and it helped  in creating the infrastructure on which both sides of this House claim that they have their contribution.  But the reality is  known to the people of Orissa.   

It is being rumoured that the hon. Prime Minister may go to Orissa soon.   It is hoped that an institute like the National  Institute of Science and the Paradip Refinery, which has been promised to the State for a very long time but, unfortunately,  not been mentioned in the Budget, will be announced by the hon. Prime Minister when he visits Orissa in the near future.  We  do not have any quarrel with the Congress or with the ruling clique.  They can take all the credit they like, but they must  give the due that Orissa deserves.  We have no objection to their pasta mind-set and we have absolutely no problems when VJ  Cyrus in his MTV programme gives kudos to the national Budget.  We appreciate it because that is also a part of India and  that population is also watching what is happening in this country.   But there are certain points that I would like to  mention in brief, very quickly.

Sir, in para 96 huge Grant has been given to Kolkata, Chennai and Mumbai Universities. Similarly, an amount of Rs. 100 crore  have been given to the Punjab Agricultural University.  We are very happy about it.   Kolkata is Left, Mumbai is Congress and  Chennai is the hon. Finance Minister’s home State. It is excellent.  Sir, Punjab is your home State.  We are all very happy.    But along with that we have to consider that Orissa also needs a boost in its educational facilities.  We also have an  agricultural university.  We also have a culture university which needs the Central assistance, but nothing has been done  about it.  Our NIS and our AIIMS type institution projects have been shelved. When the BJD and BJP MPs complained about this  and were agitating about this in the House, the hon. Minister of Finance himself took it upon himself to come and assuage our  feelings and to tell us that `chill, relax àÉé cÚÆ xÉÉ* I will take care’.  But it is sad that he forgot our demand and he  did not think it fit that we should be taken care of in his own domain and no budgetary provision obviously means no  sincerity.

Sir, in para 83 there is a talk of one thousand kilometres of access controlled expressways. Everybody in this  House knows that LWE, the Left Wing Extremists, are creating problems all over this country, but in a specific belt – right  down from Nepal and down South. We were hoping that the proposed Ranchi-Vizag National Highway which was conceived and which  was supposed to run through this LWE affected areas, would be considered in this access controlled expressway programme. But  there has been no mention of that in the Budget.

In para 80, where there is a mention of petroleum, it is stated that Rs. 22,000 crore would be invested for  capacity increase of existing refineries. But, Paradip, which is a Greenfield refinery project, has been completely neglected  in this Budget and there is no mention of it anywhere.

Similarly in para 75, there are talks of mega power projects in many States, some of our neighbouring States.  Sir, Orissa has coal and Orissa has required infrastructure. But we have been kept out of this para and we have not benefited  from this. Here, I would suggest that if you are already taking coal from us, if you are polluting our water and if you are  not willing to invest more money in our State, you must give us 10 per cent free power from what NTPC produces in Orissa so  that the State benefits from it.

Sir, let us admit that just because the people of Orissa decided not to vote a group of corrupt and inept  Congress people to Parliament, this Government is settling scores and is taking revenge. Today we heard a very beautifully  written speech read out to us about the educational system in this country. It is much ado about nothing. Everybody has been  talking about Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan. In your Budget, you have kept two per cent as education cess. You are collecting crores  in that. Through that cess, you have re-invested a part of it, Rs. 7,100 crore or some figure which has been made into Rs.  10,000 crore or something. But there is nothing new about the education sector.

You have subsidised medical education, engineering education and other specialised studies. Who are the children who go and  study in those institutes? It is the children of the rich people, the bureaucrats etc. Very few politicians’ children get to  study in these institutes. It is the businessmen, it is the bureaucrats whose children go and study. But once they finish  their course in the IITs or in the medical colleges what do they do? They go off to the US, they go off to Canada and they go  off elsewhere. But there is no system here in our country by which they can be made to pay back the subsidies that this  society has invested in their studies. … (Interruptions)

Sir, I will conclude in a very short time. It is also sad that there is nothing specific mentioned about the health sector  and especially about population control in this Budget. One of the major problems of this country is population increase.  There is no mention of that. The hon. Minister of Finance, in his own words, has admitted that the number of taxpayers is  increasing; tax collections are going up; compliance is on the rise. It is a very good information for all of us. But on the  promised mention of administrative reforms to this increasing line, to tap that, no mention has been made about it.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please conclude now.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Sir, I will take a minute. Without service to taxpayers will compliance increase? We have to see  that. By removing Section 10(23)(g), tax exemption for income from investment in infrastructure, we have not only damaged  infrastructure growth but we have also damaged the cause of the poor. I wonder if this will help in the so-called Bharat  Nirman.

Similarly, the definition of long-term specified asset has been amended in Section 54(e)[c]. The notified bonds redeemable  after three years, starting from 1st April, 2006 for National Highways Authority and Rural Electrification Corporation alone  will be tax exempt.

At the same time, the people who have invested money in NABARD, which helps the farmer directly, National Housing  Bank or SIDBI, which helps small and medium industries, they will not be benefited. The sad part is that there is  retrospective effect on that. This should be considered whether these projects and this mindset will help in your Bharat  Nirman.

When all the Western countries are giving higher subsidies to their agriculturists, here you have come down to  Rs. 46,213 crore in this Budget from Rs. 46,874 crore given as subsidies in 2005-06 Budget. That means you have slashed Rs.  600 crore from farm subsidy alone. It is very sad that you are killing and throttling the agriculturists. There must be a re -think on this. It cannot be a country fit only for the survival of the rich and the high and the mighty. This country has to  be made a country where the poor have to be made rich and the weak have to be made stronger.

Date:02-03-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL):  Sir, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak on the Railway Budget today.

Today, the whole country or at least the conscious people are happy that the Railway Minister has presented a  budget which has been welcomed by everybody and we, especially from Orissa, are extremely happy that when the Government of  the State had asked for a little over Rs. 800 crore for the projects that could be identified, the Minister has given Rs. 700  crores plus to Orissa for which I would like to congratulate and thank the Cabinet Minister and his colleagues. This budget  might be considered a political budget by some people.  But I think if budgeting does not become political, eventually, it  winds up as being a bureaucratic budget.  And as we know, for over 58 to 59 years now, this country has been governed, is  being governed and probably will be governed by bureaucrats.  And when they rule the roost, obviously people do not get their  fair share in a federal set-up like India.   So, we are happy that the Minister has consciously made a political budget and I  hope in future also, as long as he is the Minister, he will make efforts to keep it that way. Now, after the budgeting is  made, the time is ripe for the beauracrats to prove their credibility and merit and that is when political interference must  not be there. Once the money is sanctioned as per the wish of the people, it is imperative that the delivery system must be  made effective. We have to congratulate the Minister for bringing out the performance and outcome budget for the railways separately which is a very good thing.  It has given a very clear picture of how the money has been allotted, how it has been  spent or encroached or perted.  It is with regret that I have to state that most of the funds allocated to Orissa could not  be spent in the last year for most of it has been perted and that is the pity.  You had the political will for a certain  time, and now it is necessary to remove that political interference and I hope the Minister and his colleagues will be able  to do that.  The time now is to ensure that the bureaucrats do the delivery.

It is because that is where their major responsibility lies.  That is where none of us should interfere. 

I would like to mention one or two interesting things.  Nearly 200 new superfast trains have been introduced.   The passenger fares have not been increased.  But the speed of these trains is very slow, but the passengers are made to pay  the fare of superfast trains.  So, in effect, in a round-about way the passengers are paying extra money than what they paid  a month or so earlier.  Superfast trains running at 55 kms per hour sounds like a joke to me.  The Ministry of Railways, the  Railway Board and the Minister should re-consider the speed of these trains. 

We know that diesel and petrol prices have been hiked.  So, both freight and passenger traffic has increased.   Now, the major responsibility of the Ministry is to sustain, increase and build on that traffic. 

Another point which I would like to mention is about the TTEs and RPF personnel.  They need to be re-oriented.   The hon. Minister should think of a plan whereby they can be made people-friendly and they can be taught how to behave with  people.  Everyday we are hearing incidents of how RPF personnel are beating the passengers, throwing passengers out of the  trains and being very barbaric in their treatment.  That is also a very vital point which the hon. Minister should take up. 

The Minister has announced a train from Bhubaneswar to Pondicherry.  I would like to thank him for that because  that gives us a very good connection to the Southern part of the country.  My only request is that it should start from  Sambalpur, which is North-West of Orissa, coming through Angul-Dhenkanal-Cuttack-Bhubaneswar-Berhampur.  Then, further on it  should go to Pondicherry.  Dhenkanal, Angul, and Talcher stations were built by the British to transport coal for their  railways about a century or more ago.

ºÉ£ÉÉ{ÉÉÊiÉ àÉcÉänªÉ : +ÉÉ{É +É{ÉxÉÉ £ÉÉ ÉhÉ ãÉä BÉE® ºÉBÉEiÉä cé*

gÉÉÒ iÉlÉÉMÉiÉ ºÉi{ÉlÉÉÒ : ºÉ®, àÉéxÉä ÉÊãÉJÉÉ cÉÒ xÉcÉÓ cè*

These three stations need modernisation.  I would expect and request the Minister to please do that. 

The last point is about Meramandali.  It is in the centre of Orissa where a station is already existing.  It  needs rail siding because that can evolve as a very good commercial centre.  With NALCO, that is National Aluminium Company  and Bhushan Steel Company, that area is getting industrialised.  If Meramandali could have a siding and a proper  infrastructure, it would be a very good move on the part of Ministry of Railways. 

I thank you again for giving me this opportunity.

Date:27-02-2006

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Sir, there is a saying in Oriya: “.º´ÉMÉÇ BÉÖE ÉÊxɺÉÖhÉÉÒ xÉÉcÉÒ, ¤ÉbÉ ¤ÉÉÊfêÉÉ BÉÖE  VÉ´ÉÉ¤É xÉÉcÉÓ*” The loose translation of that would be, “There is no ladder to Heaven, and you cannot retort to the  biggies.”

Sir, many learned colleagues have already spoken extensively on this issue and we see a common platform for both  the biggies -- the Congress and the BJP. They join hands where it suits them. It has to be taken into consideration that the  enlightened foreign policy of an illustrious ex-World Bank Economist must be very clearly understood. Rome had enlightened  Europe. We have to now consider which part of Europe is enlightening the foreign policy of India. Is it the same  enlightenment that made this Government to take a head-count of all Muslim soldiers in the Indian Army? It has to be given  very serious thought.

We, members of the Biju Janata Dal, are all small fries, I mean, the small, little parties in this august House.  When the biggies join, like I said, obviously, we have no role to play, whether it is my friend sitting at the back or people  like us. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That interruption will not go on record. Only the speech of Shri Tathagata Satpathy will go on record.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : Article 6 of the NPT says that all five acknowledged nuclear countries “have to make progressive  efforts to reduce nuclear weapons clearly with the ultimate aim of eliminating these weapons.” Ultimately or unfortunately,  the very five acknowledged nuclear countries are using their position and ability today to increase their economic power.  Today, nuclear power is taking secondary position to economic power. We have to understand that.

* Not Recorded.

America invaded Iraq or Afghanistan or whichever other territories not with an aim to diminish the threat from terrorism or  the Muslim fundamentalists, but to grab the oil, to grab the economic resources that are available in those countries. It is  a pity that we, as a country, have not been able to evolve a very clear, precise, independent foreign policy. India may dream  of a world where there is complete disarmament, but Sir, it has to be taken into consideration as to whether it is possible  in today’s world.

To be precise, there are 915 installations world-wide that are under the IAEA scrutiny. Out of these 915 installations, only  11 installations are in the known nuclear-power countries. The interesting fact is, when a country like India opts for  scrutiny under IAEA and certain reactors, certain installations come under their scrutiny, they are there under their  scrutiny forever. However, for those five countries, the installations that are under scrutiny can change. Today it will be  that installation and tomorrow it will be another installation. There is a choice which they can play on, there is freedom.

Russia or China should never be our ideals. They are playing their own games. In our economic policy whenever we  talk about anything we always compare ourselves with Russia or China. They might be biggies in their own right but India has  its own path, which it has followed from the days of Mahatma Gandhi. We have to adhere to that policy. Unfortunately, the two  biggies in this House have drifted away, miles away from the ideals of Mahatma Gandhi.

It is time that we also looked at our own convenience and our own needs. When we talk about energy needs of  India, we only talk about sporadic supply of energy to the rural India, the true India where the agriculturists, where 85 per  cent of our population lives.  Electricity is a commodity which they get for two-three hours in a day. When we base our  calculations, we base our calculations on that sporadic supply of energy to rural India, which the user would be best able to  speak on. When we vote against Iran, we forget where our convenience lies. It is in the interest of India and we all have to  be very clear about it whether anybody admits and speaks or not. It is in the interest of India to see that our energy  demands of tomorrow are taken care of. Are we doing that? No, we are not doing that because America does not want us to do  that.

We can remove the Petroleum Minister in India at the behest of America. He is not a colleague of mine; he does not belong to  my party although it would have been great if one of my party members would have been the Petroleum Minister. The Petroleum  Minister can be removed because he does not suit the desires of America. Like the WMDs of Iraq, which never ever surfaced  even after Iraq has been under occupation for a year, when they talk about the nuclear possibilities or nuclear capabilities  of Iran, they are possibilities or capabilities as thought of, or as dreamt of, by the US. It is not the situation in  reality.

If the US thinks that it now needs the oil of Iran, India will raise its hand and say, ‘Yahoo! Let us do it.’ If you have  China which is an atomic power sitting next to you with lots of bombs, if you have Pakistan sitting right next to you with  more bombs, what difference does it make if Iran also has bombs?

To sum up my speech I would say this much. You have today a unipolar world. You have to consider what exactly you want. Total  disarmament is India’s dream. Very good! But is that possible? No. So, what is the alternative? Total armament. Let everybody  be armed. That is the best deterrent against any mischief monger.

We have to consider this and we have to take a view where the enlightened opinion of an economist does not come into play in  our foreign policy but the enlightened opinion of the people of this country comes into play.